The Balance Without Ad Hominem Petition for Dutchess County

  • Author:
    n/a
  • Send To:
    Dutchess County residents
  • Sponsored By:
    members of the Real Majority Project
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Are you the Author?
Do you believe that real debate is healthy and a good thing in a democracy?

Do you believe that the best way decisions are made in government is if as many perspectives on an issue as possible are heard?

Do you believe that ad hominem attacks and personalizing issues have no place in Dutchess County government?

Do you believe that someone who is attacked in such a manner has a right to respond?

I do.

Personally, I think that common sense, simple decency, and democracy demand that someone who has been attacked personally has a right to defend themself (see DebateBothSides.com).

Unfortunately, some in the Dutchess County Legislature have increasingly resorted to ad hominem attacks-- while those attacked have not been allowed to respond (curiously). This happened repeatedly during the April 10th Committee Day meetings and repeatedly during the April 14th full board meeting of our County Legislature-- three times, in fact-- re: solar, hybrids, and wetlands protections, for instance (see webcasts for yourself of these meetings and others @ TotalWebcasting.com/Live/Dutchess).

Such behavior should have no place in our county government-- and those attacked with ad hominem attacks should be able to respond without being shut down again and again.

Enough.

If you agree that true balance (without ad hominem attacks) is important in a real democracy, sign this petition, send an email to countylegislators@co.dutchess.ny.us, and pass it along to all you know-- let's nip this in the bud, folks.

Joel Tyner
Dutchess County Legislature Environmental Committee Chair
County Legislator, Clinton/Rhinebeck
324 Browns Pond Road
Staatsburg, NY 12580
joeltyner@earthlink.net
(845) 876-2488

According to Wikipedia, "An ad hominem attack is a personal attack in the form of an ad hominem argument. Ad hominem attacks are often used in a debate or discussion where the speaker wishes to avoid the substance of the discussion and instead resorts to smearing the character of their opponent. It is considered a logical fallacy and is one of the modes of spreading propaganda."
[see En.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem_attack]

According to the American Bar Association, "The Constitution includes several amendments that protect the rights of those accused and convicted of crimes, such as due process of the law, the right to defend oneself, and the freedom from double jeopardy."
[see ABAnet.org/publiced/lawday/schools/lessons/hs_offendersrights.html]

According to the European Criminal Bar Association, "The right to defend oneself is one of the essential principles underlying the concept of a fair trial."
[see ECBA.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=92&Itemid=25]

According to Amnesty International in their report "The Right to Defend Oneself", "Everyone charged with a criminal offense has the right to defend him or herself against the charges; see Article 11(1) of the Universal Declaration, Article 14(3)(d) of the ICCPR, Article 7(1)(c) of the African Charter, Article 8(2)(d) of the American Convention, Article 6(3)(c) of the European Convention, Article 21(4)(d) of the Yugoslavia Statute, Article 20(4)(d) of the Rwanda Statute, Article 67(1)(d) of the ICC Statute."
[see AmnestyUSA.org/Fair-Trials-Manual/201-The-right-to-defend-oneself/page.do?id=1104723&n1=3&n2=35&n3=843]

54 Signatures

  • K Hornick
    • Comments
    • Any legislators engaging in this practice should be censured and removed ! Balance is crucial to our democratic system.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12601
  • Peter Conklin
    • Comments
    • !!
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 8 circle dr Hyde Park NY 12538
  • Thomas Baldino
    • Comments
    • I was disturbed to hear that Co. Leg. Joel Tyner was bashed by G.O.P. at the April full board meeting of our County Legislature because he does not drive a hybrid car and has no solar panels on his roof. Such ad hominem attacks have no place in our County Legislature and should not be allowed. Joel would have a hybrid car and solar panels on his roof if he could afford these environmentally friendly items that more than pay for themselves. He more than compensates with the time and effort he puts into the welfare of Dutchess County residents.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 19 North Street, Beacon NY, 12508
  • Fred Nagel
    • Comments
    • Personal attacks are the norm when politicians don't want to talk about issues. Local media follows suit, intent on tearing down someone who is pro environment and interested in grassroots democracy. Challenging the monied establishment is almost always doing the peopleŠ„s business.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12572
  • Dianne Engleke
    • Comments
    • discussion and debate should be about issues, not personalites, and should never include personal attacks.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12546
  • suzie hieter
    • Comments
    • That one can respond to accusations, to proffer a rebuttal, doesnt that represent free speech?
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 288 e meadowbrook lane, salt pt, ny 12578
  • Sharon Rushton
    • Comments
    • Shame on the idiot that speaks without facts. And God Bless, Joel Tyner, who finds out the 'real deal' and spreads the word to everyone [and beyond] he represents! Joel has dedicated his life to helping our community be healthier, safer and happier. Shame on the legislature for not defending him and shutting up the idiot who was blabbing GARBAGE and POLLUTING the air with his personal attacks on one of the HARDEST WORKING POLITICIANS IN OUR AREA. Thank you Joel. We love you! and respect you and hope everyone that witnessed the scene learns that negative words are no replacement for POSITIVE ACTION. You, Joel Tyner, are part of the solution, not the problem.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12 Oak St, Rhinebeck, NY 12572
  • Richard R Carlson
    • Comments
    • Personal attacks should not be tolerated,and should have been censured.A bad precedent has been set.Not only does Joel Tyner have a right to be angry,but all of us should want justice.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 3 Bowdoin Lane,Wappingers Falls NY 12590
  • D. Sommer
    • Comments
    • Fairness, truth and equanimity speak without words.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12540
  • Douglas McComb
    • Comments
    • Ad hominem attacks are regretable. I don't know all the details. A County government that benefits by thousands of dollars from each foreclosure, totalling at least 3 million dollars a year? This institiution is unable to accept multi-thousand dollar partial payments? The moral exemplar can net hundreds of thousands of dollars per Systemic Grand Larceny ("foreclosure") and not return one penny to the new homeless they have created? In my opinion, overall, the legislature has recited the kindergarden lies that are the Pledge of Allegiance so many times, that they seem to lack the mental capacity, let alone morality, to cease benefiting from systemic grand larceny.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • Poughkeepsie, NY 12603
  • Gloria Ghedini
    • Comments
    • Let's be fair in this issue.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12569
  • Tom Holsapple
    • Comments
    • Personal attacks without a response should never be allowed....plus, on my drive on Rt 9 Monday, only one County Legislature was seen walking for Pesticide Cancer Awareness....that being Joel Tyner...good job Joel.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12572
  • Bill Jeffway
    • Comments
    • I encourage the Legislature to address the real problems that country residents face. And encourage the Legislature to set a moral example for all those who respect our democractic institutions and hard-won freedom. Shame on those who degrade our democracy.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • Milan NY 12571
  • Carol Ferry
    • Comments
    • I wish to sign the petition
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 847 Bulls Head Road Rhinebeck 12572
  • Chris Merando
    • Comments
    • Personal Attacks have no place in a debate. They are irrelevant and they get in the way of a true resolution to any problem
    • Address; Zip Code
    • Wappingers Falls, NY 12590
  • Roz&Russ Austin
    • Comments
    • If we say that we live in a democracy, then all sides must be heard without personal attacks.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 57 livingston st,rhinebeck, 12572
  • Danny Shanahan
    • Comments
    • Let's end these kind of attacks; censure/remove those responsible.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 19 Livingston Street, Rhinebeck, NY 12572
  • E. Mark Stern
    • Comments
    • Nothing in life is totally "fair." However, it is certainly true tha, in the spirit of exchanges that are part of the official record, that the full spirit of the debate must be recognized, and that exchanges include both sides of any debate.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • Bare Market Farm, 297 Market Lane, Clinton Corners, NY 12514
  • John V. Mizzi
    • Comments
    • "Why can't we just get along?" Personal attacks are part of the disease that has infused public discourse like an epidemic since about seven years ago!
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 30 Cramer Road, Poughkeepsie, NY 12603
  • Carolann Koehler
    • Comments
    • Joel Tyner is well known to be a fair, well-informed & extremely hard working member of the Dutchess County legislature. He, and all our legislators, should have the right to respond to any attacks (which should not have been allowed).
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12603
  • Joanne Lukacher
    • Comments
    • Ernest and even impassioned debate of issues has a real place in our democracy, personal attacks do not.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • Staatsburg, NY 12580
  • Doris Soroko
    • Comments
    • Joel Tyner deserves respect for his hard work on behalf of Dutchess County.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 1092 River Rd., Barrytown, NY 12507
  • Jane Curran
    • Comments
    • Ad hominem attacks are the last resort of feeble minds, in this case, persons who themselves have nothing positive to offer. Of course the legislator attacked should be allowed to respond.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 5E Village Green, Rhinebeck, NY 12572
  • matt ranallo
    • Comments
    • the water situation is bad, we have a 4yr old that has asthma and the water isnt anygood for her breathing, and when we take showers we all come out itchy and have tried different soaps, and the only thing that works is 2 use bottled water. i refuse 2 drink the water now as i am learning has contamination of lead from the chloromine tearing it from the pipes i have 4 children and 2 buy bottled water 4 everything gets costly especially when paying for water u cannot use in ur home. please fix our water system not just for me but for the whole community thank you
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 621 sheafe rd lot 44 poughkeepsie ny, 12601
  • Jim Rosasco
    • Comments
    • Need to be heard
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12572
  • Scott Derby
    • Comments
    • There is room for opposing viewpoints and intelligent debate on issues. There is no room (or patience) for political posturing and irrelevant verbal bullying. It is beneath the office and a disservice to the citizens of Dutchess County.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 2000 Salt Point Turnpike, Salt Point, NY 12578
  • Mar Peter-Raoul
    • Comments
    • Thank God - a true politician!
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12601
  • ward m. stanley
    • Comments
    • i support this petition
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 32 s.parsonage st. Rhinebeck ny i2572
  • Marian G Thompson
    • Comments
    • Joel Tyner works tirelessly in favor of measures which protect our county residents' health and the local environment. The fact that he can't afford a hybrid car, or to put solar panels on his roof, should not discount all the work he does, despite virulent opposition, to protect our local environment. In a democracy, ideally anyone, especially those in the public eye, should have a chance to defend themselves against personal attack. Most local politicians have thankless and low-paying jobs. The least we should offer them in return for their efforts is to respect their work. How many of us would be willing to be pilloried on a regular basis for our beliefs on behalf of the general population?
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12514
  • Cary Kittner
    • Comments
    • this is just common sense
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 1 Wildey Road, Barrytown, NY 12507
  • Michael Nickerson
    • Comments
    • Here is my stone, let those who are without sin be the first to cast it.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 336 Clinton Corners Rd, Clinton Corners NY 12514
  • Guy Hathaway
    • Comments
    • Enough schoolyard punk behavior, already. If this alleged representative embarrasses you, who is he representing? The county legislature cannot afford the time and attention this sort of squabbling wastes. Tend to the job or find other employment, if you can. And read a book on rational, civil discussion.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • Rhinebeck, 12572
  • M. Donner
    • Comments
    • We voted you all in. We should hear from all of you.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 84 E. Market St, Rhinebeck, 12572
  • Rob Renbeck
    • Comments
    • Joel may not have might on his side, but he certainly has right! It's disheartening that so many elected officials act to interfere with democratic exchange and that a petition like this should be needed at all.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12580
  • Douglas C. Smyth
    • Comments
    • Legislators should stick to the subject at hand, and maintain civility, not attack each other.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12580
  • joe calabro
    • Comments
    • stop the attacks on joel tyner
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 11 kristi lane 12601
  • Linda Seaver
    • Comments
    • I am ashamed that elected officials in my county act this way. It is disrecpectful to not only the person that the attacks are against, but also to the citizens with intellects.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 161 E. Market St. Rhinebeck, NY 12572
  • Grace
    • Comments
    • Please please please
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 161 east market st rhinebeck ny 12572
  • Janice M. Viola
    • Comments
    • There should be no personel attacks. If attacked, a person should have the right to respond. This is basic courtesy.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 19 Monell Ave, Poughkeepsie, NY 12603
  • Joan Grishman
    • Comments
    • Legislators represent the public interests and their personal opinions of each other should not interfere with the debated issues.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • hyde park, ny. 12538
  • Susan Nagel
    • Comments
    • Ad hominem attacks are considered wrong by all and should have no place in our media
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12572
  • Strachan Boolukos
    • Comments
    • They need to act there age
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12572
  • Andrew G Lawson
    • Comments
    • Debate the issue, not the character of the supporter of the issue
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 948 S Anson Rd, Stanfordville, NY 12581
  • Nicholas V. McCausland
    • Comments
    • Republican fascist/orwellian attack politics are a scandal and is deeply damaging to the democratic process.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 12 Livingston St., Rhinebeck NY 12572
  • Gary Kenton
    • Comments
    • Let us rise above
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 16 Bain Ave., Poughkeepsie, 12601
  • Natalie Beeck
    • Comments
    • Time for the grown ups to play!
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 17 parkview terrace poughkeepsie,NY 12603
  • George Quasha
    • Comments
    • Clean discourse means sticking to the issues, clearly.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 124 Station Hill Rd
  • RICHARD P. MCHUGH
    • Comments
    • FAIRNESS AND INTEGRITY IS ALL I ASK FORM ELECTED OFFICIALS.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 154 CHELSEA RD.,WAPPINGERS FALLS;NY 12590
  • Douglas C. Smyth
    • Comments
    • Personal attacks do not serve the public, do not reflect well on the Legislature, and have no place in a debate on issues. They should never be aired in a legislative chamber.
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 44 Schultzville Rd., Staatsburg, 12580
  • Susan Quasha
    • Comments
    • Ad Hominem attacks out--real debates in
    • Address; Zip Code
    • 124 Station Hill Road, Barrytown, NY 12507